So should we just post our thoughts in this thread as we read? Do we have a schedule? Here goes...
I'm about ten percent in, and I'm enjoying it, after that first horrific chapter (which I didn't re-read this time around). Structurally, I like the shifts between a lot of different voices. That's creating interest... there's always something new. Even if I come to a policy-heavy chapter, like Chapter 3, I know it will be over soon, and the next will be back to a different mode of storytelling. His Science in the Capital trilogy would have benefited from more of that kind of variety.
I found the first chapter with Chandra and Mary especially gripping. The debate over geoengineering reminded me of Neal Stephenson's Termination Shock, and also of comments in various environmental forums I'm part of that highlight the politics more than the science. Along the lines of "carbon sequestration is just a dodge for the oil companies to keep on drilling." When the science is telling us we have to remove carbon as well as stop emitting it, it seems like the politics have to fall by the wayside. (I am aware that DAC has to still be technically proven at large scales, so the jury's still out on its feasibility.) Maybe those technologies are last resorts, but who's to say when we're at the last resort? I bet the people of Kiribati have a different answer than those of us in the (formerly) temperate north do.
I find Robinson is best with description and with focused scenes between a couple of characters. But he's finding other ways to make group settings more dynamic (and brief!), as in the notes of the big gloom and doom meeting, instead of trying to lay it all out in dialogue. And that chapter about the executives of the oil companies, who are all really nice people with good intentions...oof!
And then there are the more philosophical bits from some sort of disembodied authorial voice, like the short chapter about ideology. It all seems pretty experimental, and I like it. Looking forward to the next parts.
Thanks for doing this, Elle. I read Ministry last year and was so frustrated with it as a novel that I wrote long talk-backs to it in my journal every day. I put some of them in my Goodreads review but I may look them up as we consider this book together. As I recall, my main beef with it was that it’s an extended editorial more so than a novel. Fiction is meant to raise questions and possibilities, not give answers. I promise to keep an open mind! I enjoyed his much earlier book, Pacific Edge, and have been eyeing the New York books. I get that he’s brilliant, and his work is thought-provoking.
Most utopian novels are extended editorials moreso than novels and it's my biggest gripe about the genre. That's why I'm trying to do it differently for my own novel! But I hope you dig out your notes because I'd love to know your thoughts!
Kim Stanley Robinson is one of the writers I'm using as a comp on my other novel, a satire on conspiracy theories and anti-science beliefs. Even for sci-fi, he includes a lot of science, especially of the non-space kind. Let's bring back the didactic novel! Of course, as an established writer with a pretty big audience, he has a lot of leeway to violate the rules the rest of us noobs have to follow.
I have been reading Ministry for the Future for the last two weeks. I have struggled because it is so dystopian. I am persisting because it is supposed to be a utopian novel. I am 75% done, it has many fascinating chapters that don't at first seem to relate to the story, but really do if you think about it. I hope to get to the utopian part soon.
I'm about to finish the last book from NK Jemisin's 'Broken Earth' trilogy and my last cli-fi reading of the year is 'The Ministry of the Future' which I was already planning on reading with you. So I'm definitely in. I hope that you can ask him some of my questions because I plan to write something about my cli-fi reading in 2023. Would love to include a quote from the author. So excited, this is great Elle!
Oh my goodness, The Broken Earth trilogy is one of my favorite series! I can see why it's not your cup of tea, but it really just gets better and better. For me, the prose was jarring at first for reasons I couldn't quite explain, but once I got over that, and got into the story, I couldn't put it down. Got several of my friends irl to read it too and it was universally compelling!
Ok that's good to know. I keep trying to read "adult fantasy" but I'm epically failing, it just feels so glacial. I'm halfway through Earthsea right now which I was really hoping to love but it just feels like every fantasy novel ever (a wizard coming into his power). I really love YA fantasy and new adult fantasy, the characters are so much more interesting and there's usually a fast moving plot I can't put down, and with atmospheric settings I don't want to leave. I'm just not finding that in the trad stuff? But maybe I'm just not an adult after all....
Hahahaha definitely can relate! Honestly part of why Jemisin's writing threw me for a loop is that I couldn't tell at first whether I was reading YA fiction or something made for adults, like the prose is clipped and simple and sort of in-your-face, but the subject matter, and the scenes, and the conflicts/confrontations, very much Not for kids. (I mean, some kids I'm sure would love it, but they're obvi not the target audience.)
Yeah I mean, fair warning, they’re not happy books. It’s not a utopian world nor a hero’s journey, and it doesn’t end happily ever after. But man is it viscerally satisfying! God I just relished the ending, so multi-layered, definitely left me in tears—and not sad tears, very much all the catharsis. Anyway I won’t badger on; I’ve definitely gotta write about this series at some point!
Yes, I’m about to finis the third book. It’s worth persisting. I haven’t read a trilogy so fast since The Imperial Radch by Ann Leckie.
I understand perfectly why you were put off by the first chapters. I had a moment where I thought that the author was insufferably pretentious. But I was wrong. The book starts to pick up after those initial chapters and it’s brilliantly written. Great characters, plot, worldbuilding and a ton of talent with this author. It could easily turn into my favorite cli-fi read of the year.
Great idea. It's Ministry FOR the Future. Yes, Chapter 1 is horrific, but all the rest of the book is about solutions. Don't let size of book discourage you -- many chapters are 1 page or less. Well worth reading!
Ha! I’ve only read the beginning of Ministry, which was so dystopian I couldn’t continue! I did read his whole Science in the Capital trilogy. Glad to have the excuse to come back to this one, since so many of my acquaintances recommend it.
Hi, everyone. How's the reading going? I've been under water at work, but coming up for air soon. How are people finding this read?
From now on I'm vetting these books before I share them with you because I'm struggling with this one so hardcore.
Respect.
Subscribed, and copy in hand!
Woohoo!
Got my copy! Just hope I can read fast enough to keep up with the discussion 😅
Yay!!! The good thing about this being online is it's asychronous! You can just pop back as you go, no matter the speed!
So should we just post our thoughts in this thread as we read? Do we have a schedule? Here goes...
I'm about ten percent in, and I'm enjoying it, after that first horrific chapter (which I didn't re-read this time around). Structurally, I like the shifts between a lot of different voices. That's creating interest... there's always something new. Even if I come to a policy-heavy chapter, like Chapter 3, I know it will be over soon, and the next will be back to a different mode of storytelling. His Science in the Capital trilogy would have benefited from more of that kind of variety.
I found the first chapter with Chandra and Mary especially gripping. The debate over geoengineering reminded me of Neal Stephenson's Termination Shock, and also of comments in various environmental forums I'm part of that highlight the politics more than the science. Along the lines of "carbon sequestration is just a dodge for the oil companies to keep on drilling." When the science is telling us we have to remove carbon as well as stop emitting it, it seems like the politics have to fall by the wayside. (I am aware that DAC has to still be technically proven at large scales, so the jury's still out on its feasibility.) Maybe those technologies are last resorts, but who's to say when we're at the last resort? I bet the people of Kiribati have a different answer than those of us in the (formerly) temperate north do.
I find Robinson is best with description and with focused scenes between a couple of characters. But he's finding other ways to make group settings more dynamic (and brief!), as in the notes of the big gloom and doom meeting, instead of trying to lay it all out in dialogue. And that chapter about the executives of the oil companies, who are all really nice people with good intentions...oof!
And then there are the more philosophical bits from some sort of disembodied authorial voice, like the short chapter about ideology. It all seems pretty experimental, and I like it. Looking forward to the next parts.
Hi Elle. I want to join in & support you (that was an affiliate link, right?) but I am based in the UK. Do you have an ebook affiliate link instead?
Well that is very kind but you certainly don't need to support me with affiliate links haha. But here's an ebook link: https://amzn.to/3RPmVQ6
Thanks for doing this, Elle. I read Ministry last year and was so frustrated with it as a novel that I wrote long talk-backs to it in my journal every day. I put some of them in my Goodreads review but I may look them up as we consider this book together. As I recall, my main beef with it was that it’s an extended editorial more so than a novel. Fiction is meant to raise questions and possibilities, not give answers. I promise to keep an open mind! I enjoyed his much earlier book, Pacific Edge, and have been eyeing the New York books. I get that he’s brilliant, and his work is thought-provoking.
Most utopian novels are extended editorials moreso than novels and it's my biggest gripe about the genre. That's why I'm trying to do it differently for my own novel! But I hope you dig out your notes because I'd love to know your thoughts!
Kim Stanley Robinson is one of the writers I'm using as a comp on my other novel, a satire on conspiracy theories and anti-science beliefs. Even for sci-fi, he includes a lot of science, especially of the non-space kind. Let's bring back the didactic novel! Of course, as an established writer with a pretty big audience, he has a lot of leeway to violate the rules the rest of us noobs have to follow.
Okay then! I just hope you won't live to regret this request. 😂
Meanwhile, I think this is a link to my Goodreads review, which I still stand by. https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/3750421108
I have been reading Ministry for the Future for the last two weeks. I have struggled because it is so dystopian. I am persisting because it is supposed to be a utopian novel. I am 75% done, it has many fascinating chapters that don't at first seem to relate to the story, but really do if you think about it. I hope to get to the utopian part soon.
I've wondered about that! It'll be interesting to talk with everyone about what parts feel dystopian/utopian.
I'm about to finish the last book from NK Jemisin's 'Broken Earth' trilogy and my last cli-fi reading of the year is 'The Ministry of the Future' which I was already planning on reading with you. So I'm definitely in. I hope that you can ask him some of my questions because I plan to write something about my cli-fi reading in 2023. Would love to include a quote from the author. So excited, this is great Elle!
Did you like Broken Earth? I tried to get into the first book but for whatever reason just wasn't drawn in. Is it worth persisting?
Looking forward to reading The Ministry with you!! And yes, I will definitely ask your questions!
Oh my goodness, The Broken Earth trilogy is one of my favorite series! I can see why it's not your cup of tea, but it really just gets better and better. For me, the prose was jarring at first for reasons I couldn't quite explain, but once I got over that, and got into the story, I couldn't put it down. Got several of my friends irl to read it too and it was universally compelling!
Ok that's good to know. I keep trying to read "adult fantasy" but I'm epically failing, it just feels so glacial. I'm halfway through Earthsea right now which I was really hoping to love but it just feels like every fantasy novel ever (a wizard coming into his power). I really love YA fantasy and new adult fantasy, the characters are so much more interesting and there's usually a fast moving plot I can't put down, and with atmospheric settings I don't want to leave. I'm just not finding that in the trad stuff? But maybe I'm just not an adult after all....
Hahahaha definitely can relate! Honestly part of why Jemisin's writing threw me for a loop is that I couldn't tell at first whether I was reading YA fiction or something made for adults, like the prose is clipped and simple and sort of in-your-face, but the subject matter, and the scenes, and the conflicts/confrontations, very much Not for kids. (I mean, some kids I'm sure would love it, but they're obvi not the target audience.)
Ok ok, I'll give it another go!!!!!! I just got to get to the YA part 🤣
Yeah I mean, fair warning, they’re not happy books. It’s not a utopian world nor a hero’s journey, and it doesn’t end happily ever after. But man is it viscerally satisfying! God I just relished the ending, so multi-layered, definitely left me in tears—and not sad tears, very much all the catharsis. Anyway I won’t badger on; I’ve definitely gotta write about this series at some point!
Yes, I’m about to finis the third book. It’s worth persisting. I haven’t read a trilogy so fast since The Imperial Radch by Ann Leckie.
I understand perfectly why you were put off by the first chapters. I had a moment where I thought that the author was insufferably pretentious. But I was wrong. The book starts to pick up after those initial chapters and it’s brilliantly written. Great characters, plot, worldbuilding and a ton of talent with this author. It could easily turn into my favorite cli-fi read of the year.
Great idea. It's Ministry FOR the Future. Yes, Chapter 1 is horrific, but all the rest of the book is about solutions. Don't let size of book discourage you -- many chapters are 1 page or less. Well worth reading!
Ok I keep messing that up. Thanks so much for the correction! And very good to know about the first chapter!
Video chatting to KSR? Badass. I'm in.
Yessss!!! So stoked!
Great, I love KSR's Mars series, best trilogy ever. I've finished MttF a while back, I like it very much. I'll give it a quick re-read to refresh.
Oh amazing!!!!
Ha! I’ve only read the beginning of Ministry, which was so dystopian I couldn’t continue! I did read his whole Science in the Capital trilogy. Glad to have the excuse to come back to this one, since so many of my acquaintances recommend it.
Please persist. The opening scene is important for the story.
Good to know!