Madness. Capitalism is a monster which lives on exploitation and destruction. The best thing we can do is put it to death asap. Talk of making it cuddly and fluffy is just ridiculous
Madness. Capitalism is a monster which lives on exploitation and destruction. The best thing we can do is put it to death asap. Talk of making it cuddly and fluffy is just ridiculous
I am after (re)generative ideas too. But having a system which places Capital in pole position is going to destroy the entire planet, as we observe. What about a system called Planetism or Earthism, which prioritises the living substrate of our lives? That is the correct starting position. Otherwise we’re all dead.
I am afraid exploitation and destruction are woven into the very fabric of the system as it stands, and all we can hope for is that the system falls sooner rather than later so that we can start again with non-suicidal ideas.
“Capitalism has made the world wealthier than any other model”. I think by ‘wealthy’ you mean ‘more awash with money’. These are not the same things. We need to check our conditioning, which runs deep; we need to reconsider whether our definitions serve us and the planet; we need to broaden our extremely narrow, Western-centric, left-brained focus. A case in point, below:
“Abraham Maslow discovered that “for the Blackfoot tribe, wealth was not measured by money and property but by generosity. The wealthiest man in their eyes is one who has almost nothing because he has given it all away” (Coon, 2006). Maslow witnessed a Blackfoot “Giveaway” ceremony in his first week at Siksika. During the Giveaway, members of the tribe arranged their tipis in a circle and publicly piled up all they had collected over the last year. Those with the most possessions told stories of how they amassed them and then gave every last one away to those in greater need (Blood & Heavy Head, 2007)
To most Blackfoot members, wealth was not important in terms of accumulating property and possessions: giving it away was what brought one the true status of prestige and security in the tribe. At the same time, Maslow was shocked by the meanness and racism of the European-Americans who lived nearby. As he wrote, “The more I got to know the whites in the village, who were the worst bunch of creeps and bastards I’d ever run across in my life, the more it got paradoxical.” “
There is no point tinkering round the edges with this stuff. The problem isn’t the kind of Capitalism we have, it’s that we’ve lost the plot. It’s a crisis of soul, of spirit. What we’re going to find out is that we really can’t eat money.
I guess I do not imagine that life was better for tribes. Though it may have been better than feudalism. It may be true that the poorest person today doesn't live as good of a life as the poorest person in a tribe (even though I'm not sure even that much is true), but the vast majority of people who live in a capitalist society today live better lives today than the vast majority of tribe members did back then. The medical advances alone, the agricultural advances that meant people didn't need to wander and could build sturdy homes, the ability to live through the winter because we can buy and sell canned goods, the ability to trade with others who had access to advancements that would make their lives better. "Wealth" brings all of that. Trade.
Trade doesn't have to be exploitative. Sure it often was back then, but today's capitalists are a far cry from the ones 100 years ago, and an even further cry from the Wild West rogue colonizers who were living by their own laws. We have international trade that is mutually beneficial and creates jobs and wellbeing for everyone who has access to that trade. I'd be curious to know what you think about my piece studying Mondragon? https://www.elysian.press/p/mondragon-as-the-new-city-state
> the vast majority of people who live in a capitalist society today live better lives today than the vast majority of tribe members did back then
I think this is worth giving some deeper thought. What does it mean to "live better lives"? Probably the most essential question in the hunt for utopia.
If it is about happiness, those tribes probably had a head start on us. When you look at the records of first encounters with the natives, they are often recorded as being so happy that the explorers almost thought them retarded.
Going back to Maslow, who was so surprised from visiting and studying the tribes that it changed the entire future trajectory of his studies, leading to the theories of the Hierarchy of Needs and self-actualization:
> in Blackfoot society [...] he discovered astounding levels of cooperation, minimal inequality, restorative justice, full bellies, and high levels of life satisfaction. He estimated that “80–90% of the Blackfoot tribe had a quality of self-esteem that was only found in 5–10% of his own population” - https://gatherfor.medium.com/maslow-got-it-wrong-ae45d6217a8c
Doesn't that pretty much sound like the definition of a utopia?
And that was in tribes living in a reservation, already under pressure from the encroaching civilization. Wonder how it would have been when they lived in the most fertile areas, free to roam.
I can't help to wonder what we could possibly offer them that would really make their lives better (as in increasing their happiness). Sure, our medical technology would make a difference. They did have a very high infant mortality. But if they survived the early years, their life expectancy was very close to ours (and we only just caught up, after early agriculture causing a huge dip). Most of our medical system is dealing with lifestyle diseases that were introduced by civilization and pretty much unknown to the tribes.
This is not to say that they were perfect. They clearly did not have an economy that allowed to them to build up any kind of significant military power, which made them intrinsically vulnerable to be run over by cultures with more evolved economies.
I guess that is one of the challenges with utopia. If you are truly happy and satisfied, then why work for progress?
Capitalism has made the world wealthier than any other model and has alleviated poverty more than any other model. If there is also exploitation, how do you fix that part? If there is also destruction how do you fix that part?
Madness. Capitalism is a monster which lives on exploitation and destruction. The best thing we can do is put it to death asap. Talk of making it cuddly and fluffy is just ridiculous
I am after (re)generative ideas too. But having a system which places Capital in pole position is going to destroy the entire planet, as we observe. What about a system called Planetism or Earthism, which prioritises the living substrate of our lives? That is the correct starting position. Otherwise we’re all dead.
I am afraid exploitation and destruction are woven into the very fabric of the system as it stands, and all we can hope for is that the system falls sooner rather than later so that we can start again with non-suicidal ideas.
“Capitalism has made the world wealthier than any other model”. I think by ‘wealthy’ you mean ‘more awash with money’. These are not the same things. We need to check our conditioning, which runs deep; we need to reconsider whether our definitions serve us and the planet; we need to broaden our extremely narrow, Western-centric, left-brained focus. A case in point, below:
“Abraham Maslow discovered that “for the Blackfoot tribe, wealth was not measured by money and property but by generosity. The wealthiest man in their eyes is one who has almost nothing because he has given it all away” (Coon, 2006). Maslow witnessed a Blackfoot “Giveaway” ceremony in his first week at Siksika. During the Giveaway, members of the tribe arranged their tipis in a circle and publicly piled up all they had collected over the last year. Those with the most possessions told stories of how they amassed them and then gave every last one away to those in greater need (Blood & Heavy Head, 2007)
To most Blackfoot members, wealth was not important in terms of accumulating property and possessions: giving it away was what brought one the true status of prestige and security in the tribe. At the same time, Maslow was shocked by the meanness and racism of the European-Americans who lived nearby. As he wrote, “The more I got to know the whites in the village, who were the worst bunch of creeps and bastards I’d ever run across in my life, the more it got paradoxical.” “
There is no point tinkering round the edges with this stuff. The problem isn’t the kind of Capitalism we have, it’s that we’ve lost the plot. It’s a crisis of soul, of spirit. What we’re going to find out is that we really can’t eat money.
I guess I do not imagine that life was better for tribes. Though it may have been better than feudalism. It may be true that the poorest person today doesn't live as good of a life as the poorest person in a tribe (even though I'm not sure even that much is true), but the vast majority of people who live in a capitalist society today live better lives today than the vast majority of tribe members did back then. The medical advances alone, the agricultural advances that meant people didn't need to wander and could build sturdy homes, the ability to live through the winter because we can buy and sell canned goods, the ability to trade with others who had access to advancements that would make their lives better. "Wealth" brings all of that. Trade.
Trade doesn't have to be exploitative. Sure it often was back then, but today's capitalists are a far cry from the ones 100 years ago, and an even further cry from the Wild West rogue colonizers who were living by their own laws. We have international trade that is mutually beneficial and creates jobs and wellbeing for everyone who has access to that trade. I'd be curious to know what you think about my piece studying Mondragon? https://www.elysian.press/p/mondragon-as-the-new-city-state
> the vast majority of people who live in a capitalist society today live better lives today than the vast majority of tribe members did back then
I think this is worth giving some deeper thought. What does it mean to "live better lives"? Probably the most essential question in the hunt for utopia.
If it is about happiness, those tribes probably had a head start on us. When you look at the records of first encounters with the natives, they are often recorded as being so happy that the explorers almost thought them retarded.
Going back to Maslow, who was so surprised from visiting and studying the tribes that it changed the entire future trajectory of his studies, leading to the theories of the Hierarchy of Needs and self-actualization:
> in Blackfoot society [...] he discovered astounding levels of cooperation, minimal inequality, restorative justice, full bellies, and high levels of life satisfaction. He estimated that “80–90% of the Blackfoot tribe had a quality of self-esteem that was only found in 5–10% of his own population” - https://gatherfor.medium.com/maslow-got-it-wrong-ae45d6217a8c
Doesn't that pretty much sound like the definition of a utopia?
And that was in tribes living in a reservation, already under pressure from the encroaching civilization. Wonder how it would have been when they lived in the most fertile areas, free to roam.
I can't help to wonder what we could possibly offer them that would really make their lives better (as in increasing their happiness). Sure, our medical technology would make a difference. They did have a very high infant mortality. But if they survived the early years, their life expectancy was very close to ours (and we only just caught up, after early agriculture causing a huge dip). Most of our medical system is dealing with lifestyle diseases that were introduced by civilization and pretty much unknown to the tribes.
This is not to say that they were perfect. They clearly did not have an economy that allowed to them to build up any kind of significant military power, which made them intrinsically vulnerable to be run over by cultures with more evolved economies.
I guess that is one of the challenges with utopia. If you are truly happy and satisfied, then why work for progress?
Capitalism has made the world wealthier than any other model and has alleviated poverty more than any other model. If there is also exploitation, how do you fix that part? If there is also destruction how do you fix that part?
We’re after generative ideas here.